Dunno' where to post this. But here goes;

(--- I'm paraphrasing, because this happened in French. ---)

Today, on my way to work, I was walking alongside a grocery store. A car pulled up beside me. "Hey <censored>, you walk like a <censored> <censored>." I was surprised, to say the least. I simply retorded by saying, "It's easy to say that from the front seat of your car." Then he opened his door, and untucked a balisong knife from his pant pocket. "Are you sure you want me to step out?" I couldn't get over the nerve of this guy. I rolled my eyes and asked him, "What're you going to do?" He stepped out, unfolded the knife and said, "Not so tough now, eh?" I pointed to the area behind his car and pointed out, "There's a half-dozen cars looking at you right now. You have an illegal knife and my hands aren't even raised. On top of that, you reek of pot. Think about it. After you take that step forward and I knock you out, what are going to tell the police? Regardless of what you do right now, you're going to jail. Save yourself the jailtime and hop into your car." His friend in the passenger seat yelled out to him and told him to get back into the car. He said, though the driver window, "You're lucky there's people watching. You're <censored> lucky they're watching." I smiled. "You're right! I am lucky. Now have a nice day.", in my own, sarcastic French voice.

The End.

When I got into work, I told my friend and she asked me if I was scared at all. I told her I was suprised and insulted more than anything. The sight a the knife really didn't upset me at all, since mine is much bigger. Do you think handling 3' swords somehow dulls our perception of smaller melee weapons?

Has anyone ever had this happen to them? Do you think I handled this situation as a martial artist, or just plain handled it? I'd like to think it was some form of verbal aikido. Thoughts?

Well, this part was ill-advised from the point of view of trying to talk your way out of a fight. That would be more like verbal HAPkido than AIkido...

Responding is what gives the verbal assaulter their power. It would take a lot for this kind of person to motivate themselves to take things to the next level [physical] if you completely ignored the comment. Afterall, turning and responding implies the commenter has a good point... Know what I mean?

DO you walk like a so 'n so?

Were you wearing some form of "Kick Me" sign on your back? A random, and motiveless, assault usually takes more provocation than this...

I think you handled the situation fairly well, I only wish the punk would have been arrested. I also think that working with 3 foot swords dulls our perception of smaller melee weapons. Since I started training in HDGD and Tang Soo Do I've noticed that i am not really worried or scarred of knives at all. I mean i still have respect for them, but I fear the fists of a skilled opponent more than i do the knives held in the hands of most people that would pull a knife to start violence. As far as i'm concerned a knife can be easily enough dodged and/or disarmed or taken out of play, assuming the user of the knife isn't a trained or skilled knife fighter. I was actually held at knife point somewhat recently, granted the situation was very unique and i'd rather not delve into the details(for bluntness sake, we'll say it was in the hands of an ex girlfreind that was having a panic attack) And i really wasn't very scared of the blade at all, regardless of how much intention was behind it. I was more than confident i could nutralize the knife without suffering serious injury if i had to.

I think you handled your situation quite well, you probably could have gotten away with being a little bit bolder too. I'd also say with great confidence that you could have probably put him to the ground in 3 moves or less without the knife playing much part especially if he was in the condition you said he was in. But it is good that it didn't come to that because there is always the chance something could go wrong, violence should always be avoided if it can be helped and also no defense is always perfect or fool-proof. It just hurts me however to know that people like that just drive around and do those sorts of things and get away with it.

It happened in Quebec. Although my contact information read "Ottawa, Canada", I actually live 5 minutes accross the border in Hull, Quebec. This sort of thing happens a lot around here. Last spring, a Burger King employee was decapitated near my house. This is a really gritty part of town, and a lot of people watch too much TV and listen to too rap. This creates a lot of gangsta' homie Gs with a lot of bark and no bite.

@ Anthony: If I spurted out something like that at you at the dojang, would you just ignore me or would you set me straight?

I'm sorry man, that is more than a bit rough...



But, looking at it from a positive angle...

hmmmm... so what i need to do is start watching way too much tv and then go out and start listening to as much rap as possible, and hopefully with a little luck that will increase my 'bark' without also improving my 'bite'.... Hmmm there are so many possibilities. If i read more and listen to country music, would that in theory lessen my 'bark'? Or maybe reading books combined with rap would yeild both more bark and bite...

I will investigate and return with a full report!

LOL! @ George. You crack me up sometimes.

That sort of thing never happened before though. The people who did it were from Detroit. Figures...

I didn't know there was a French community in Detroit.



What do you think? I have several answers to this, none of them are as direct as you might like. First off, I doubt you'd do it in a dojang in the first place. Second, I doubt you'd do it to me. Third, I wouldn't have to respond as others would object for me. Still, this is a question best asked to those who see me respond to nonsense, rather than to me and my np-doubt distorted self-image.

Ignoring all of that, were you to spout off some idiotic comment to me, I would take you aside to a private place and explain the etiquette of the dojang and invite you to consider adhering to it or taking your monthly dues elsewhere. If this were to happen outside of the dojang I would like to think I would ignore you. That sort of thing is pretty juvenile afterall. You might catch me on a bad day though. I have a temper which has lead me in the past to escalate things quickly - I've never suffered fools gladly and don't tend to allow a situation to remain verbal taunting when I lose it. I've mellowed somewhat.

If you were to actually attack me - anywhere - I would take no responsibility for your health or safety unless it were obvious that you were a drooling half-wit.

All that aside, you were not in a dojang, but in a public place - there is no comparison.

In these situations, the urge to respond is strong and rooted in one thing - a man's desire to be seen as a person of worth, the ego in other words. Getting riled up by scum gives them control of who you are. If they have the power to destroy your self-image then they control you. If they can drive you to participate in their game, responding to their taunts then they are the ones who are winning, regardless of any physical outcome. Becoming a better thug is not generally high on the list of priorities for proper martial artists, right?

As you point out in your post, there were a lot of other cars and witnesses about. Is it really likely that this gent wanted to start a brawl in the middle of traffic? Would that have been the goal of speaking with you? It hardly seems likely does it? Isn't it more likely that the initial goal of the taunt would be to goad a reaction from you?

This is a very delicate issue.

It's easy to agree with most of the points of view, even the one's that contradict each other, because of the complex nature of such a situation.

Did one do something to set it off? Is there some issue such as psychosis or trauma behind the offence? Probably not, but one must ask?

If it's one of those cases where it's a small person trying to prove how big they are, self-esteem problems manifesting in trying to intimidate others, then one has a dilemma.

1. One has the right to not have to suffer that, and to send a clear message that it won't be tolerated. People might argue that 'wrong' actions in society must be opposed to prevent them from continuing. One would never allow a child to continue with behaviour like that? What does one do to stop a child who is an adult and potentially dangerous? How does this affect the ethical choice?
Perhaps this can be done with ignoring the person in a certain way? Given the situation this might be one of the better choices, depending on the consequences that one might feel responsible for afterwords. Sometimes, this kind of certainty that you were not shaken, clearly ignoring someone but obviously not intimidated, is more irritating than a response, which causes the determined idiot to continue just as much.

How you send your message to such a person to stop seems critical.

2. If the offensive action succeeds in confirming the weak self-image it can perpetuate the behaviour, causing others to suffer the same or possibly worse. Obviously letting them ‘win’ is not the answer. Some criminal personalities will attack those they perceive as ’weak’ enough to take on.
However, responding to the action and the possible outcomes can also have a negative impact, and might not help either. It might even cause a few to think that they have more to prove after getting trounced or embarassed.

Can it be that it's a 'lose - lose' situation?

3. Isn't the key issue really, that we want to act in a way that we think and feel was the best way?

This is really it, isn’t it?

It is right to oppose what is wrong, but what really gets to us is the question of what is the right way. Clearly... doing nothing is not it, unless the act of doing nothing is really an obviously strong action that doesn't feed the weak self-image of the offending person with the idea that it has 'won'.
True, we don't want to be dragged down to the same level also. We don't want our spouses to regret having married us, children to be scarred of us, or to not like what we see in the mirror. Let’s not forget that somebody might get hurt.
How does one send the message, "Be at peace, but I will not tolerate this behaviour. Your mind is sick and weak, but I will stand by you. Stop this, and let us be brothers. Do not force me to hurt you," with real language and real actions?

It's very difficult, which is perhaps why it is said that it shows true mastery of a martial art. It’s not doing the wrong thing by giving in, or tolerating something that should be opposed, and it’s not doing the wrong thing by exploding in anger. I think balance is difficult.

It would have been funny to imagine the thug being disarmed and subdued by someone yelling, “Stop! I love you!” He’d probably scream obscenities and flee in terror. However, real life can be a bit more in your face, and people can get hurt.

How do we best oppose ‘wrong’ actions like these?

Notice I’m phrasing it as a question. In other words, I’m not assuming I have the answer. This is something that all people must wrestle with, is it not?
I’m also getting the impression from what Charles said that he felt he wasn’t in great danger.

If we are responding because someone has provoked us, then we have lost. If we respond because we believe that we must or should respond in a certain way, and we control our rage – if we respond to that person like we would a child that we would not wish to hurt, even though they’re begging to get slapped - then aren’t we getting a little bit closer to the right way?

By the way, Charles, your description of the neighbourhood sounds rough.
I don’t know how long you’ve been living there, but that kind of environment had a bad effect on me, and I’m not sure my experience can match the neighbourhood you described.

Hang in there, and take care….

Charles, sorry to hear you were threatened in this way.

Opinions, as they say, are like @$$holes -- everyone has them. That being said, here goes:

Keeping your own children in line is your place to do. Keeping other adults in line is NOT your place to do. Your giving lip to the guy in the car is what escalated the situation. Before that, he just wanted to yell from his car and look cool to his friends. He was no threat to you, and ignoring him was most likely the best answer. If his behavior WAS threatening to you, still, forming an ad-hoc, one-man posse to resolve the situation is generally regarded as a crime. The only people whose job it is to enforce law are police. If the person was breaking Candadian law, get a licence number and description of the driver, and report it. In this case, they were not presenting an eminent threat, and this would have sufficed. As an aside, I acted as interpreter for a police officer once responding to calls complaining of a guy sitting on the side of the road yellling profanities (who it turned out could not speak English). They do take it seriously and they do investigate.

This is a totally different situation than if he had simply unprovoked and with no prevoius interaction jumped out of his car and run at you with a knife with the intent or percieved intent to harm you. Self-defence is both reasonable and correct, just make sure you know where self-defence ends and assault starts in your area's laws. Also, sometimes running is simply the better option. A car full of friends are 6 steps away from being a sidewalk full of knife wielding revenge-seekers.

What does worry me a bit is your comment about the 3' swords vs knives. I would hope that working with a sword would give you more respect for all blades and the serious damage they can very easily do. The simple fact that he showed you his knife pretty much assures you he is not a knife fighter, and your description of his words leads me to believe he very likely didn't want to fight you either way, just to show off in front of his friends. That aside though, it takes really very little to be killed by a blade, even wielded by someone inexperienced. Even if you win, you WILL get cut. I've never known anyone who was seriously attacked by a knife-wielding attacker and came out without being cut. Even if the majority of your training is for dealing with knives (which it doesn't seem to be), it is still a very dangerous situation that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Also, martial arts has this funny duality...the process of realizing constantly that there is so much to learn and thus our abilities are meager should be humbling and lead to a small ego. But if the ego is small, your comment that you felt insulted by his comments wouldn't make sense. Actually, ma training rarely has the small ego effect, actually the opposite... This, coupled with the fact that we live in a time where daily physical fighting is not necessary leads many to wonder about their abilities in real life--resulting in them giving anime-style lines to people in cars . The line sounded very Sagara Sanoske to me. Honestly I think this is why so many martial arts groups start pushing their moral codes over their training.

In another light though, after the escalation, I'm glad you were able to handle it with words and not fists and blood. Mahatma Gandhi would be proud...well, after he got done slapping himself in the forehead, shaking his head right and left with an exasperated "d'oh!"

It's a good thing you were able to maintain such a level head, Charles. Not only did it possibly save your life, but it no doubt allowed you to make mental notes on a full description of the individuals along with a detailed description of their vehicle, including the tag number. Did you notify the local authorities and file a police report so as to possibly spare others of their violence? I mean, the next poor sap they target is not likely to handle the situation nearly as well. What did the police have to say when you spoke with them? Have they had similar reports? If you haven't reported this to the police for some reason, then you should. Better late than never and it is your civic duty. Hey, does your local newspaper print a police blotter containing all of the crimes they file a report on? If so, post it in the Swords in the News section for us to read and comment on. I know it was a knife and not a sword involved with the incident, but it was pulled on a swordsman so it's still fitting. Keep us updated on any progress that the police make.

On another note: I train with 3' blades as well, but I haven't been dulled to the potential effects of a 4" blade. Having been stabbed with one (by someone other than myself, thank you ) may have something to do with that, though. However, if there is any validity to that theory, could it be applied to firearms as well? If one trains with large caliber guns might it make him devalue the potential effects of a .22 pistol? That question is rhetorical.

Charles, I was just looking over my post, and thinking that I might have been talking in circles, too much.

I'm not sure, but I believe that under Canadian law the threat of violence with the ability to carry it out (the friends in the car would clinch that - let alone being armed with a weapon) constitutes as 'assault'. I'd ask someone who really knows, but it's certainly illegal.
Even though you don't seem to be shaken about it, from what you wrote, I felt the need to be sensitive regarding your experience.
I felt more comfortable talking about hypothetical situations, or only referring to your incident indirectly.

When I wrote of having the right to oppose what one feels is wrong, I was implying things such as helping someone who is being attacked, or feeling free to not tolerate verbal harassment. By 'not tolerating', I was not implying responding with aggression, of course. I would not encourage an attitude of trying to keep other adults 'in line', and would support Aaron's statement that it's the police's job to enforce the law.
When the knife entered the equation, even if you believed that you might not have got hurt, the possible consequences became much more serious.
Some of your statements could have been better phrased, and may not have helped your situation. You were probably very angry, I understand. Believe me, I've lost it sometimes. The important thing is that it cooled off and nobody got hurt.

Anyhow, I trust that you probably know this and don't need to hear any of this. It's just that, given the description of your neighbourhood, I wouldn't want to send any message that could be misinterpreted as a 'show'em who's boss' encouragement.

You've brought up a very important topic with this.

Casey,

Thanks for your bit of realism. People who have actually worked with and against knives tend to have a much healthier respect for them that those who have never actually been cut or stabbed by them. Two inches of steel inside you will do the trick. It doesn't take two feet of it. I've been cut several times and I have a very healthy respect for short blades and the fighters who use them. Fear, no. A VERY healthy caution and respect, most definately.

I also recall that someone once made a comment about people who weren't afraid before going into combat...now what was that? Perhaps someone else remembers.

Good thread. Some good suggestions here. If my website was up I'd refer to the article on self-defense and the art of the sword.

On the heels of Aaron's post...

Although it seems to have become popular to belittle one's predecessors these days, the old masters were generally respected for their humility.

The Bubishi states that "an empty vessel makes the most noise."

Chuang Tzu was approached by the officials of the King of Khu to take charge of all the king's territories. Chuang Tzu stated that "I have heard that in Khu there is the shell of a tortoise, 3000 years old, which the king keeps in his ancestral temple. Was it better for the tortoise to die and leave its shell to be honored or to live and drag its tail in the mud?" The officials replied, "Better to live and drag its tail in the mud." Chaung Tzu replied, "Go tell the king to find someone else. I prefer to keep on dragging my tail in the mud."

Gichin Funakoshi, the "Father of Modern Karate" was honored in his own time by great men because of his humility.

There is a saying: When a man made il dan, he ran and told his neighbors. When another man made i dan, he told only his family. When a third man made sam dan, he kept his mouth shut and said nothing but a profound thank you to his instructors. His humilty overwhelmed him. The third man exhibited the true spirit of the martial arts.

I was very impressed by Stephen Hayes, the American shidoshi of ninjutsu, who once stated that the purpose of ninjutsu was to MAKE IT HOME AT NIGHT TO ONE'S FAMILY, using any means necessary. I don't think that provoking others or drawing undue attention to oneself helps one make it home at night in one piece.

The guy who spurted the homophobic insult from his front seat was high on drugs. I could smell it as soon as he opened the door. He obviously wasn't in control of himself. When he opened the door is when things got serious. I had to take control of the situation. Given that his friend was in the passsenger seat, his insult might have been a "Betcha' can't ---!" type of scenario.

Anyhow, I made a mistake by even acknowledging his remark. Once I realised I pushed it too far, I had to command the situation. Keep in mind too, I'm still young. At 20 years old, I'm not the Zen figure of a martial sage. I'm rash, I'm headstrong and my ego is huge, not to mention I have a history of brawling at any oppurtunity. I'm still working on these things. The difference between a thug and myself is that I realise I have these flaws and I'm working towards fixing them. I'm still very young and I have lots of times to acquire Zen-like verbal aikido.

I understand what Anthony is saying. Had I never responded in the first place, the situation would ahve never escaladed to that. The way I handled it wasn't the subltest, but it did get him back in the car. Next time I'll just keep walking... (Live and learn.)

Nonetheless, you did get the local authorities involved, right? Gave a detailed description, filed a report,... You strike me as the type to want to look out for your fellow man. Like I stated in my post above - the next poor soul to be targeted by these scoundrels aren't likely to be able to handle it as well as you did. Even if you haven't filed a report yet, it's not too late to do so.