Hey there,

A casual question...
Does anyone know anything about what's required if you want to teach gumdo say at a community centre or as a not for profit club? I'm hearing some nonsense that you have to 'buy into a franchise' for $3000 bucks to teach anywhere at all. Even not-for-profit. ...or else risk copywrite infringement. Is this for real?

I know we had a college club that I helped teach at. Bascily the student instructor teaching under the permission of a franchise master.

We ahad a club a college that I helped teach at. What the club founders had done was to get the blessing of a local Master and we would go to his school for tests and equipment.

Grant,

If you use Federation logos without authorization, for any reason (from any Federation), you will be subjecting yourself to the possibility of a lawsuit for copyright infringement. Also, you shouldn't use any copyrighted 'catchphrases', like 'East Sea Swordsmanship'.

There are only so many ways to 'swing a sword', and so far the Daehan, Hankuk, Saegye, and other federations are each teaching very similar curricula, without suing each other at evey turn....I'd just make sure you don't make any claims about the teaching being sancioned by or approved by the World Haidong Gumdo Federation, unless it really is.

If you want to teach a non-profit intro class or community event, perhaps you could just call it something 'neutral', like 'Korean Sword Martial Art"?

Yeah, okay...
I like the idea of just teaching martial arts because I like doing it, not to make money. I'll get a day job.

But anywyas. I'm in Korea training at the Jeongja headquarters, recently promoted to 3rd dan. I was really proud and happy about that... until I heard this anonymous rumor that when I got back to Canada I'd have to shell out $3000 bucks. Or else the locals wouldn't recognize my belt or some such?
I don't really care that much. I just like to learn/teach MA. But it irks me to think that someone thinks they can tell me my hard work is worthless unless they can muscle in on it.

Will you reach 4th dan before leaving Korea? Otherwise, might it be possible for you to make some sort of arrangement with either your current sabumnim or the world headquarters to teach HDGD in Canada and bypass the franchise fee by, say, returning to Korea test for your 4th dan?

I am surprised that this is still a mystery.

Look ~ let's go for the amusing example and say you work for KFC, and you learn the colonel's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices. Not only that, you like the way the kitchen and other elements of the operation work.

You decide you don't want to be a KFC franchise holder, and you don't feel good about selling chicken for money so you decide to set up a kitchen along the lines you enjoyed at KFC, and you whip up a batch of delicious chicken using the recipe the colonel made, and you sell it for cost.

You don't think it is reasonable that there might be objections to that?

You have worked hard to gain skill. Rank is not skill. Rank is placement in an organization. Organizations have rules. The only people that need to acknowledge your skill are you, and those who choose to learn from you. Rank on the other hand, and your position in an established heirarchy of recognizing and providing ranking are another matter - a completely unrelated matter.

Good points, Anthony, but let's take that example a little further.

Suppose I quit my job at KFC. I decide I don't want to be a KFC franchisee, but I do want to benefit from my years experience of doing what I know best - cooking chicken. I start my own chicken restaurant. I use no logos or markings or brand identifiers for KFC, and I make my own recipe. I am not claiming to be associated with KFC, and I go out of my way to make sure I am not encroaching on their trademarks. Still, I know that I am benefitting from things I've learned from the Colonel, things like advertising and marketing methods, health code standards, safety practices, contacts with suppliers for everything from plastic bags to cleaning supplies, approaches to management and personnel issues, and even how long chicken needs to be cooked and at what temperatures.

I think you see where I'm heading with this. Giving knowledge is like letting the genie out of the bottle - you can never take it back and make it go away. Just like a university doesn't get royalties any time you use what you learned in their degree program, there is a limit to how much control any Federatioin can exercise over the knowledge it has spread. Trademarks and branding, though, is a different issue.

Personally, I see the benefits of federation membership and franchising as less related to either issues of knowledge or branding, and more related to the safety of having an over-arching structure. Federation membership allows for broader application of knowledge, through competitions, larger regional testing, and transference of rank when students move. Having a stable authority structure protects the students by providing some 'quality control' in what is being taught, and allows the teachers to continue learning and improving. Group dynamics allow for 'economies of scale' for equipment and insurance purchases. As the art becomes more well-known, the 'branding' issue comes back into play - if I claim to teach 'haidong gumdo', then I am benefitting from the work, diligence, and advertising that the Federation has poured in to making the art known and reputable.

A while back I taught a 45-minute session at an all-day martial arts workshop to raise money for a charity. The session was simply called 'Korean Sword Methods'.

Why mention that? Because my take on it is that if you want to spread what you have learned about sword basics and grips and postures and stances and forms and sparring and cutting and stretching and conditioning, go for it! But if you want to teach haidong gumdo, get the franchise.

I think both Tony and Ann make some good points. Various kumdo and Haedong Kumdo groups have tried to say that they own the words Haedong and Kumdo. All have been politely told by both the Korean and US governments that they need to smoke some better stuff and they don't own a language. It would be like trying to trademark the words Tae Kwon Do or Karate. Ridiculous. But then greed isn't always rational. I remember after my first article on Haedong Kumdo was printed in Black Belt Magazine, back in '98(?) that I got a call from a Korean gentleman somewhere in Ohio or Illinois telling me I couldn't use the term kumdo because he had it trademarked. I won't repeat here what I told him, but suffice it to say that we didn't exactly part as chums.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, can open a school in the US and teach anything the want and call it anything they want, as long as it doesn't infringe on trademarks or servicemarks. It's pretty easy to check and see if there is one. This is still a free markey economy governed by capitalism (for good or bad). I can't speak for Canada.

As Tony suggested, if what you want to do is teach martial arts (even if you want to make lots of money and not do it for free) then teach martial arts. If you want an affiliation, however, you probably need someone's blessing. You can purchase that for various amounts of cash. The right amount can probably even buy you back into the good graces of whatever organization you "betray" by going out on your own - should you ever want to train with them again.

If this stuff weren't true, it would be a very bad joke.

Ron's post reminds me of the many commercialized martial art schools in existence that advertise themselves as Tae Kwon Do schools.

In a situation like this, I think it's worth pondering if the intent is to simply avoid the costs associated with recognizing ownership or to offer something similar but different enough to stand apart even if it evolved from someone else's intellectual property.

We stand on the shoulders of giants.

These are all good points.
In an effort to think outside the box, I turned to the Canadian Kendo Federation and asked them for advice and examples on how they try to run things responsibly. I asked them about whether they are 'for profit' or not. Is it a business? More specifically, does the CKF simply regulate the martial art, or do they insist that you have to pay for the blessing of affiliations?
To a Japanese master, would they be pissed if you taught karate or kendo outside of their organization/business/RYU?

Names excluded, this is their response:

"The CKF is a national subset of the IKF (international Kendo Fed). Its function is to serve as a monitor for guidlines / standards (in Canada) set by the IKF. However, the CKF has the power to modifiy its own standards. For example the CKF requires 2 years between 1st Dan and 2nd Dan...others do not.

For a Dojo to open you need the sponsorship of a 7th Dan Sensei. By doing this, you are a "recognized" CKF dojo, which means that you adhere to the guidelines set by the CKF under the supervision of the sponsoring Sensei.

The CKF is the recognized body to govern Kendo in Canada by the IKF. Any club that is not part of the CKF or has a CKF sensei as its "sponsor" is doing "Kendo" that do not necessarily adhere to the guidlines / standards set by the IKF. Some very small Clubs do not pay the Dojo fees, but still maintain contact with he CKF.

For example, being 3rd Dan myself, I can officially teach basic Kendo in a Dojo as 3rd Dan is considered the basic teaching rank. Lower rank instructors are very prevalent in Canada especially in remote /isolated dojos (I was/am one of them) but they receive much more input from the CKF regarding their syllabus and are told to strongly focus only on basics. All ranks in Canada that are 1st Kyu and up ( 6th Kyu - 1st Kyu, 1st Dan-8th Dan) are graded by the CKF at a CKF grading without exception. All Dojo's are considered responsible to grade Kendoka from 6th - 2nd Kyu.

Each dojo pays $75 / year for its CKF status, and each member pays $20 to be a CKF member. You must be a CKF member of a CKF dojo in order to attend gradings. period. You want to challenge for a rank in Canda that is recognized by the IKF and each of its members, you do it via the CKF. You can create your own federation if you like and bestow your own gradings, but they would be meaningless within the international body of Kendo should you want to challenge for a rank at a grading that is outside of your own federation.

This splintering has happened hugely within Karate and Judo etc.. but the separate factions have grown so large that the international body must accept them. But, each of these splinters joins a governing body at some point. The politics can become quite complicated.

The CKF is a business, but not one that is out to make profit for its leaders. Any profit that the CKF attains is spent towards promoting Kendo in Canada via seminars, IKF grading / referee-ing seminars, and subsidizing various events and funds. Most notably Kendo Team CAnada for the IKF competition every 3 years. As a side note, the CKF has given small subsidizations to me on a number of occasions to help out with Kendo events and visiting Sensei.

So, i think what you need to do is find out exactly what this organization in Canada is coming from. Are they the recognized body in Canada? Is there a Central body in Korea? If you can speak to somebody with that, they may be able to advise you. Perhaps if you present your case correctly, they can give you their blessing? Not sure what that would mean as far as gradings and any of your future students go here in Canada. Find out all you can on the politics / history of this body and how it related to the international body / Korean central body. Then go from there.

Also, what does your franchise fee get you? A piece of paper? ... or something much more important like sponsorship / event funding ,etc..

Hope this helps. If I can help you anymore please feel free to msg me.

Sincerely,
__________"


Grant again:
From what I can tell, I like this system.
Any responses or thoughts?
What is fair? What is responsible?

Grant, thank you for taking the time to post all this information and your personal research. I think in the long run, it can help us all build better organizations and support for our arts, by applying the 'lessons learned' in the kendo world.

This may seem harsh, but my first thought after reading this question was, "What difference does that make?" 'Fair', 'Reasonable', logical', 'good', 'ideal', etc. would matter to me if I were trying to decide how to put together my own organization and how much to charge for my own Federation. (Maybe I could even give myself some lofty title like, "eXtreme Eminent Nigh Ascendent Grand Mistress of the Swordly Warrior Arts, or XENA, for short ) What you have to ask yourself is, "What does Federation membership get me?", and, "Is it worth the cost?" (Again, that's 'the cost that is', not any 'cost as I think it should be.')

If your goal is to have rank recognized for your students if they move/transfer, then Federation membership is a must. If rank is unimportant to you and to your students, then it might be optional in your case. Likewise consider competitions, group gradings, additional training, anything else the Federation provides, and the impact of doing without it, or doing it on your own.

Another thought, added on edit: Have you thought of partnering with another school nearby, so you are under the auspices of a master who has a WHDGDF franchise? Gradings would be through the 'parent' school, and the master with the Franchise would be the sponsor for any competitions or WHDGDF events. At the least, such an arrangement could allow you time to build up a student base to see if it would be feasible to support your own school (and therefore worthwhile to get the franchise).

This isn't an issue that's easy for me to take sides on. I'm all for honoring the federation's copyrights and trademarks. And I understand and accept the underlying concept of the franchise fee. However, to have someone work their way up through the ranks as a run-of-the-mill student (and considering the costs of doing so) only to charge them the full franchise fee if they wish to take on students seems a bit like double dipping by the HQ. Consider that everyone (i.e., masters of arts other than HDGD) new to HDGD who buys into the franchise pays the same fee as what Grant will be expected to pay, but their $3000 franchise fee will take care of their training from that of very beginner through 4th dan. Grant will be coming in as a 3rd dan at least.

It's worth knowing, though, that it's not a simple matter of dividing the franchise fee up equally between each of the first four dan levels. As it has been explained to me, the franchise fee includes the promotion test fees, travel expenses and other operating costs, uniforms, and various other items such as the flags, plaques, and the franchisee's certificates.

IMO, the WHDGDF should credit you for the portions they have received from the fees you've been charged thus far for your dan level promotion tests and deduct that amount from the franchise fee should you wish to continue to work for them by taking on students of your own.

As for the locals back in Canada not recognizing your earned rank after you return home, that's total BS if that's the case. You're already a member of the WHDGDF as a student and your promotions have been through it. Your rank is suppose to transfer to member schools without question. Isn't that the point of testing through the organization? It's more like you won't be recognized as a fellow franchisee if you open your own school unless you pay the franchise fee despite having attained your rank through the WHDGDF.

You may want to confirm with Mark Bantoft, however I do remember him having to wear a white belt when he came back from Korea. He was training with Master Mike Martin and was required to wear the belt until his next Dan testing, regardless of him already being a 2nd dan.

A close friend of mine, Ryan Murray, tested for his 1st Dan in Korea and was asked to retest for it when he arrived in Canada later that year.

Also, the registration fee from the CHDGDA encompasses training from 8 geup to 4th dan, however infrequent it may be, and a certificate. It also gives you instant Master's Rank in HDGD, as long as you already possess a 4th Dan rank in any other martial art, regardless of how easy it may be to achieve such a rank in that martial art. In your case, you will most likely be asked to strip down to a white belt initially, until you can test (and pay) for your next dan rank.

You should keep in mind that things are done a lot differently in Canada. Some forms practiced at HQ are different, and there is little, if any, consistency in between schools. Most HDGD teachers in Canada (90%+) are actually TKD/HKD teachers who bought into the franchise and began training as recently as only 1-2 years ago, although some have been at it for a good 4-5 years.

Dunno' how much that helps. In my opinion, I'd say suck it up, be a man, and pay whatever fees you need to get in. Don't try and argue with the modifications they've made to HDGD. And at all costs, never ever point out that "learned it differently" from some famous Grand Master in Korea... that's a good way to get your head bitten off, especially from some of the newer instructors. Once you've paid (or repaid, whatever) your dues, go on your merry way and do you own thing, safe in your knowledge that no one is going to bother you.


Obviously you all know where I stand on the politics of HDGD, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Best of luck.