CandleKilla----07/03/2001 2:12 PM----Post Number: 1


Here is a list of Haidong Gumdo vocabularies which you might find useful. I must say that there might be some variations of the instructional words between dojangs but it should be decent as a general guide. Any suggestions to update the list is more than welcome so feel free to criticize ^_^;;
Copy and paste really messed up the lines so I attached file in Microsoft Word format.

Yin----07/03/2001 7:32 PM----Post Number: 2


Little changes after a little consultation with Candle Killa ( my Sah-bum/Sahbum/Sahbeom)

- "Home" - the "o" should be pronounced like the o in over not like the o in home (if that makes any sense...)
- if an "s" precedes an "i" then the sound is more of a "sh" sound rather than an "s" sound (ie "Sip" is pronounced more like "ship" but faster, very quick i)
- the Korean for triple cuts as written is Huh-Eng Dan Il Gum... the Huh-Eng is said quickly coming out sort of like "hweng" or a quick "who-eng"
- the "Ku-uh" in "switch" definition (this means more of a "switch stance" of literally "stance switching") is pronounced quickly like "ku-wuh"
- "haidong" is pronounced more like "haedong" even if the official spelling is haidong
- "Ps" is akin to psychology... it's an "accented" "s"

hope this serves to better your understanding and not confuse it beyond all recognition... of course knowing the Korean alphabet and how to read words (about as far as I've gone anyways... vocab is near nil) helps a ton as these words have the Korean words for them as well...

Anthony_Boyd----08/03/2001 3:04 AM----Post Number: 3


Just a quick note on a typo:

Yin has written in the reply above, about the pronunciation for "Triple Cuts" but the term he explains is actually for horizontal cuts. Hweng (Huh-Eng) is the name of horizontal cuts. This information is correct in the document Candle Killa was kind enough to prepare for us but mis-typed here.

Thanks again Candle Killa for taking the time away from your studies to write this out for us. I, for one, really appreciate it.

CandleKilla----02/04/2001 5:20 AM----Post Number: 4


Here is the vocab list version 1.01(which contains numerous bugs and unstabilities:?....) reflecting Yin's correction and little bit of addition. I'll work on it throughly after my exams. Let me know if I'm missing anything or if there is an obvious mistake on the list

Yin----04/04/2001 10:23 PM----Post Number: 5


re: correction....

oops...

Anthony_Boyd----17/08/2001 8:02 PM----Post Number: 6


I did as Candle Killa suggested and edited the excellent vocabulary list he prepared for us. If you have information to add to the list please or spot an error please do not hesitate to offer an addition or correction.

My contributions to the vocabulary are in a different colour so as to allow for easy separation should the need arise.

I feel that the transliteration of the Korean terms CK provided are excellent but am not sure those who have never heard spoken Korean will be able to make full use of them. Perhaps members who live in Korea could assist on this project and provide a comparative pronunciation guide...?

Eg: Haidong Gumdo

The vowel sound in Hai is similar to the "e" in "get"
The vowel sound in Dong is similar to the "o" in "no"
The vowel sound in Gum is similar to the "o" in "top"
The vowel sound in Do is similar to the "o" in "no"

Vowels in Korean seem a bit shorter than those in English.

Anthony_Boyd----17/08/2001 8:07 PM----Post Number: 7


A second area we still need to address is a spelling guide. Newer members are getting confused about the content of some older discussions. Add in typos, misheard terms and brain failure by the original posters and we arrive at a very bewildering back log of cryptic messages.

Are there any suggestions for adopting a standardized spelling?

Aaron----21/08/2001 9:49 AM----Post Number: 8


If someone (I will suggest one if nobody else wants to) wants to make a hangul romanazation scheme, I would be happy to "take a picture" of it and post it on the site. I think the newest official Romanization scheme in use in Korea is very intuitive to me, unfortunately I don't have the font to write in it...

Anthony_Boyd----21/08/2001 3:58 PM----Post Number: 9


Aaron, you might be behind the times. (Most of the signs in Korea are)
The latest romanization scheme in use by the government did away with special characters and markers and uses only letters. I find it takes the same amount of time to correctly realize what the spelling is trying to indicate as it does to learn to read hangul. I find it amusing to have to check my pronunciation theory at each new destination by confirming things with the hangul.
It still makes ridiculous assumptions about pronunciation though which baffle those who have never been here.

eg: Jamsil and Chamsil are the same place.
The pronounciation of Jamsil/Chamsil is Jamshil.
Shinchon and Shinchon are not the same place.
One is Shinchawn and the other is Shinchone.

Aaron----21/08/2001 4:56 PM----Post Number: 10


Oh, I guess I am behind the times. When I saw the signs in Korea, the older schemes (like the one used to Romanize Soeul) seemed to appear only when totally necessary, but what seemed to be on the newest signs would have spelled Soeul as ' S o^ul ' (please imagine that the carrot is upside down and ontop of the o).

The spelling can get messy certainly. Our scheme should probably compensate for when Korean aspirates leading consonants, since we aren't requiring that everyone run out and learn to read hangul. Do you already have one worked out?

Anthony_Boyd----21/08/2001 6:41 PM----Post Number: 11


Nope.

I'm very talented at not liking the available options. It helps me practice my griping and complaining techniques. I kind of put the cart before the horse when I suggested doing a comparative study of terms with established english words in order to demonstrate the correct sound. Without a decent transliteration system, which our vast, world-spanning membership will accept and use, there can be no comparison.

Ryan----22/08/2001 8:55 AM----Post Number: 12


The romanization of Korean is never going to be an easy thing. This is mainly due to the fact that the Korean government changes the rules what seems like annually.

I live in;

Kangnung, Kangneung, Kanglung, Kangrung, Kangreung, Kangleung

Now change all the K's to G's and you'll have all 12 possible spellings of the same thing!!!!!

This is no exageration. I have seen all of this in print in different places. As intimidating as it seems, it is actually much easier to pronounce Korean accurately when you learn to read Hangul. (Hangeul?????) I realize that, that may be difficult for those outside of Korea so I suggest trying to find a copy of the current transliteration scheme and work from that. I'll see if I can find one on the net and post it somewhere here.

Yin----06/09/2001 10:50 AM----Post Number: 13

It may not be funny, but i can't help but chuckle when I read the posts on this one. No, it's not because I think that the romanization is impossible, but just think of romanizing (??) Korean, and then doing the same for all the different dialects (at least 3 that I know of)....... think of the permutations (combinations, variations... or some other "-tions" word)

but i agree that it's easier if you can read the Korean in Korean rather than the romanized version of Korean... of course it is

andrew----01/11/2001 3:08 AM----Post Number: 14



Anthony wrote (in two different messages):
>>
A second area we still need to address is a spelling guide. Newer members are getting confused about the content of some older discussions. Add in typos, misheard terms and brain failure by the original posters and we arrive at a very bewildering back log of cryptic messages.

Are there any suggestions for adopting a standardized spelling?
I'm very talented at not liking the available options. It helps me practice my griping and complaining techniques. I kind of put the cart before the horse when I suggested doing a comparative study of terms with established english words in order to demonstrate the correct sound. Without a decent transliteration system, which our vast, world-spanning membership will accept and use, there can be no comparison
<<
I have got into romanisation debates on other lists and had my fingers severely burned as a result (the last time the guy seemed to be in love with the new romanisation system!!??). I agree that the best option is for everyone to learn to read and pronounce Hangul / Korean but I understand that most people don’t have the time. All romanisation systems or the ‘it sounds like this’ which Anthony used is that they don’t take into account the dialect (or nationality for that matter) of the reader. I.e. I, being British, will pronounce the words differently to an American, Frenchman (or women), etc.
Nonetheless, although Anthony does not seem to like the systems developed by scholars the better ones have had some thought put into them as to how to recreate / represent the Korean sounds in English. There only two systems that I know of that are in general use (though I read today that over 40 schemes were developed over the last century (boy, it’s weird writing that!). One is the current government system. That is, ‘g’ of kiuk, ‘j’ for jiut, etc and the horrible ‘eo’ and ‘eu.’ Apart from looking ugly I have a couple of reasons to dislike this system. One is that the ‘g’ and ‘j’ are often soft, particularly in American English, which leads to mispronunciation. My second major objection is with the ‘eo’ and ‘eu’ vowels which are used here in a way that they aren’t in English. Any word with ‘eu’ or ‘eo’ will be automatically mispronounced by a native English speaker.
I much prefer the McCune-Reishauer (hereafter, McR) system. The ‘problem’ with this system is that it uses brieves over the ‘o’ and ‘u’ i.e. ô and û. However, these can easily be accessed in word using the insert-symbol menu. There may be other ways. Despite the propoganda put out by the Korean government (and as you can see here) brieve letters do not cause problems for the internet. I couple of years ago I created a page explaining the McR system. You can find it at: http://website.lineone.net/~torm1358/McCune.htm
I realise that no system or person is perfect but this is my 2 pence’s contribution to the debate.
Andrew

DaeSan_JinHae----07/11/2001 11:11 AM----Post Number: 15


As Candlekilla once told me, Korean and English simply aren't compatable. You can spend all day debating the best way to figure out in English, but you'll never sound like a Korean that way: and they know it! As stated before the only true way is to learn to read and write hangul-it's scientifically proven to be one of the easiest languages to learn to read and write. (Speaking and understanding is another story for sure.) There are pleny of good audio tapes out there too that give native pronunciations for each vowel as well to make it easier than just going out and getting some book with Romanization in it.