It has recently come to my attention on another (non-MA) forum that many Koreans tend to view the term "dojang" as a Korean version of the Japanese term "dojo". I immediately reasoned (with no basis whatsoever since my Chinese character understanding is approximately nil) that they were based on the same Chinese characters and hence the superficial similarity. Then I got to thinking (always dangerous)...

My Kwanjangnim always answers the phone with "Haidong Gumdo Chae-yuk-kwan" but tends to use "dojang" more often in conversation or reference to our or other places of training. I know that "chae-yuk-kwan" translates more precisely to "exercise place" whereas "do-jang" is more likely "training hall" (with that feeling of "do" as in "way/path/method"). The former is more general and the latter more martial arty I feel. Apparently "dojang" is not used (here at least) with TKD places of training - and they even have some other terms that I did not immediately recognise. I have only trained in TKD for a couple of months and intensely disliked it, so I stopped. I have no memory whatsoever of what the training hall was called. Does anyone have any insight into this? Or even just comments?

My Master, who also teaches the Korean martial art WonHwaDo, has always used the term dojang, but I can't vouch for his conversations with other Koreans or Masters.

As for TKD, I believe this martial art has become somewhat "westernised" lately, so it wouldn't surprise me to see other, even non-Korean, terms used.

I guess it all depends on who's teaching you...

Haidong,
Dean.

We have Always said "Dojang" in Tang Soo Do as well.

Calling your training hall a dojo is definately a Japanese practice. It is true that they are sino-japanese words, but dojo is not a Chinese usage-based expression (ie, Chinese don't say 'dao4 chang2').

A large number of current Korean martial arts terminology, methodology, practicies, and clothing come from Japanese due to their long, forced stay there. Over time, Korean practices will diverge and become more and more unique.

Korea didn't have a concept of commercial martial art school in the past. Martial art was either practiced in small groups under a master or in government facility (police, military). Things like dojo, belt system are Japanese creation.

So, is the word "dojang" a Korean derivative of the Japanese "dojo" or not? Should it be used if such is true? Is "chaeyukkwan" a better term? I was confused when I asked and am more confused now

yes it is from japanese

yes it should be used, or not, it really has no relation to anything--does it really matter where the term came from? to try to rid all kma of all jma tradition would mean mutilating them beyond recognition in their current state.

It serves its purpose, so I would stick with it.

Personally I feel we cannot immitate the full, unadulterated version of antiquity, so we should go with what works and feels rights - dojang feels right for me

On another note, what about samurang and samurai?

Haidong,
Dean.

Koreans look at me funny when I say samurang.

A variety of vocabulary terms is a good thing. At my school when Kwanjang-nim answers the phone he typically says, "chaeyougwan imnida". The sabums say, "Uijeongbu Haidong Gumdo Bone Gwan imnida"

I don't see this as a case of what should be or shouldn't be said, it's more a case of options.

I tend to side with Anthony on this one.

When I teach the Hapkido arts I teach my students to consider Five Infusions. The last two-- Japanese Infusion and Post WW II Infusion are historical facts just as with the Sado Mu Sool, Buddhist and Confucian Infusions. trying to cut these out completely would be like trying to pretend that they never happened, yes? All the same, I work to give the other Infusions equal footing along side of the latest material. In this way I hope that while we will have influences from the present, we won't forget our history and foundations. For myself, I would like to see less use of transliterated Japanese whenever possible if only because there is such an overwhelming amount of the material that the Chinese and Korean gets pushed to one side. For instance, there has been such an influence of the "Ryu" system on Korean traditions that very few people understand what a traditional "Kwan" is. Some people even think that a "Kwan" is just another name for "style" or even "Ryu"!

I think that Anthony is also correct to listen to our seniors and use the terms that they use comfortably as a start. I have never been altogether comfortable with the use of "dochang" but then, I have never been altogether comfortable with the use of hakama at our school or sparring with hogu and juk-to if it comes to that.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

This one was new to me. Can you please provide details or ref. for me to find more info?

Thanks!

-Ann

Dear Ann:

In fairness to Korean tradition I must be perfectly honest and say that of the five infusions, the Tribal Military Practices ("Sado Mu Sool") are less of an infusion and more of the foundation for later practices to build on. The closest related practices would be the wrestling arts of the Steppe tribes but undoubtedly included use of the bow, spear, knife and grappling both mounted and dismounted. Later practices, courtesy of the Buddhist Infusion and Confucian Infusion found that the early tribes already had an understanding of military practices. For instance, even before the arts of smelting metals came to the peoples of the Mongolian and Korean area, stone knives, spear points, clubs and "swords" were already in use. However, the coalesence of the tribes into discrete kingdoms required a moderation of tribal values to understandings that allowed unrelated tribes to live together in reasonable harmony under a single king. Won Hyo Kwangs' O-GAE is one such move towards producing a system of allegiences to a kingdom out of more parochial allegiences to ones' immediate clan. Another such effort might be the manner in which Shamanistic practices were interfaced with Buddhism allowing for the perpetuation of the more primitive belief system while promoting the introduction of a more sophisticated set of beliefs. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

(What does FWIW mean?)

For What(ever) It's Worth