Brian Alexander----1/3/2003 4:59 AM----Post Number: 1


This may have been discussed before but due to recent discussions I was curious if anyone here has ever been able to gain a clear(er) summation of the various art forms and or influences that make up both Haidong and Haedong?
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It is my understanding that HDGD was created from combining:
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a) Ki Chun or Gi Cheon (This being the main influence of HDGD and came from the mountain monk Seung-San Dae Sun-Sa)
b) Shim gumdo (This is the other Buddhist monk - who now lives in Boston, USA)
c) Muye Dobo Tongji
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I was also of the understanding that Na (Haedong) http://www.hdgumdo.net/english/map/map.html was the original leader of HDGD and Kim (Haidong) was his junior. But when Na decided to promote HDGD by going into films he told Kim to manage things while he was gone.
<o:p></o:p>In the mean time Na made HDGD very popular through his movies but Kim managed the organization well and it achieved much growth. So, when Na returned expecting to take back the organizations leadership role Kim refused and that's where the trouble and split began.

Anthony_Boyd----1/4/2003 8:13 AM----Post Number: 2


Brian,
I have only heard this version of the story about Na Han Il's reason for splitting from you. It doesn't sound accurate to me and it just doesn't seem to fit that his splinter group would have been and remained so small if this sort of tale is true. Thanks for the website link. I didn't have that one.

Also, most people do not mention anything about any trouble between the groups. These days they seem to want to protect their curriculum developments from each other but that's about it as far as I can tell.

I know I have no hard feelings other than regret that KMA's always seem to split endlessly. Several of our members and even one of our Assistant Managers comes from Na Han Il's Federation.

DaeSan_JinHae----1/4/2003 4:09 PM----Post Number: 3


I never heard that version either but it sounds like that game where you line 10 people up and whisper something in the first persons ear and by the time it gets to the last guy it's all distorted. I think that is pretty much the way it is with anything we hear these days-it's not pure or from the source. I went to a baegi jang one time in Korea and there were some Han Guk Federation guys (Na) practicing. One was a pretty high master from what I understood. He was the first one that ever mentioned to me about the Ki Chun and Shim Gumdo connection. When I confronted my master about it he either had no idea or didn't want to talk about it and it was understandable. So I thought better not to loose face by pressing the issue and dropped. After all the history is not the focus of my training after all. At any rate this Master had told me that the two of them had many differences in philosophy that anything else. One was more centered on the Ki Chun emphasis in training and the other was more centered on the Shim Gumdo emphasis. Also one was more concerned with spreading Gumdo and gaining power and financial prowess, while the other was more concerned on the traditional ways of their ancestors. At any rate, while speaking with this Master and watching him perform-it really didn't seem that different to me-just the same thing that had taken a different path.

Brian Alexander----1/5/2003 5:08 PM----Post Number: 4


That story of Na & Kim came from a 18 page Korean document that a Ki Chun Master provided for me. I am still in teh process of getting that dicument checked out and translated into english. The Ki Chun Master said that he originally thought the document was from the court case between Na & Kim, where Kim eventually lost.

Until I have more facts and can share these with everyone , we can all just keep speculating.

In the mean time my Master would be rather upset at me for sharing "hearsay", I imagine.

Anthony_Boyd----3/19/2004 3:01 AM----Post Number: 5


I just noticed that this thread was left hanging. The court case was over the right to trademark the name. Neither group was able to secure it as a legal trademark.

The solution to the problem was to register the logos and emblems and focus on getting media attention to connect the art and the logo.

Ron----4/14/2004 11:14 PM----Post Number: 6


It is my understanding that Na Han Il trained under Kim Jong Ho and then split (for whatever reason), taking such as the late Master Kang (who formed his own group) and Master Kim Yun Jae (who formed the Hankuk Haedong Kumdo Yunmaeng) with him when he left . Kim Yun Jae studied under both Kim Jong Ho and Na before the split. Kim Yun Jae was the head of Hankuk Haedong Yunmaeng in Korea when I trained there in '95 and '96 (just after the split) and he told me this history on a visit to Austin in 2000. Of course, something could have been lost in translation.... The first form I was taught in Haedong Kumdo (after Kaeun Kigong, of course) was Yukhap Dangong. My master, Pak Yong Hyun, made me learn this before he'd let me touch a stick. He later stopped teaching it until after Il Dan.