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 Post subject: 15th Century Written Record of Old Korea
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:06 pm 
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I found this great site that includes the English translation of the journal of a Dutch sailor who was shipwrecked and stranded in Korea from 1653 to 1666. The crewmembers who survived the wreck were taken prisoner, then held under supervision, but allowed some freedom to roam the country. (By order of the King, foreigners who entered the country were not allowed to leave, for fear that the outside world would receive news of Korea's existence, and want to attack/conquer it.) They had to learn the language, obey the local laws (including mandatory conscription into military service), and earn a living. Eventually, 8 crew members were able to escape to Japan and meet up with members of a Dutch trading company, to return home. One of them, Hendrick Hamel, kept a journal and eventually published his records of what they experienced and saw.

Here is the homepage for the English language version:
http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenij ... /index.htm

The navigation bar on the lefthand side of the webpage includes links to some very good background information on the times, the journey, and the men involved. The journal itself starts on the page marked "Journal".

I found this excerpt from the journal, describing the military system very interesting:
(from webpage http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenij ... land10.htm )

The army
For the defense of the country there are several thousands of soldiers in the capital, both cavalry and infantry. They are maintained by the king. Their duty is to guard the king and protect him if he goes out. Each province is obliged to send all its free men, once every seven years to the capital, to guard the palace of the king during two months; every two months another group and each year another province.

Each province has a general who has three to four colonels below him. Below each colonel are a number of captains, who are commanders of a city or a stronghold. Each ward has a sergeant, each village a corporal and at the head of each group of ten men is a soldier first class. All officers and noncommissioned officers have to keep records with the names of all the men who falls under his command. These records have to be handed over to their superiors once a year. In this way, the king always knows how many soldiers he has at his disposal.

The horsemen always wear a suit of armor and a helmet. They carry a sword, a bow and arrows and a kind of flail with sharp points. Of the infantry, some wear suits of armor and helmets, made of iron plates, and also from bone. They are armed with muskets, sables and short lances. The officers are armed with bow and arrow. Each soldier has to have gunpowder and bullets for 50 shots at his own expense. When we served in Seoul , we received on a certain day 10 blows on our bare buttocks, because we didn't have enough gunpowder on us.

Each city has to appoint a number of monks from the monasteries in its surroundings who have to maintain the fortresses and strongholds in the mountains. In times of great need these monks are being used as soldiers. They are armed with sword, bow and arrow. They are considered to be the best soldiers of the country. They are under the command of a captain they have chosen from their own ranks.

Who has reached the age of 60 is dismissed from military service. His place is being taken by his children. The free men who haven't been in the army, form, together with the slaves, half of the population. If a free man fathers a child from a slave or a slave from a free woman, is the child which is conceived in this way, a slave. If a male slave who begets children by a female slave, those children become the property of the owner of the female slave.

Each city has to maintain a war junk, with the crew, the armament and further accessories. These junks have two decks and 20 to 24 oars. On each oar there are six rowers. The total crew consists of about 300 heads, soldiers and rowers. The junks have some pieces of artillery and provisions for shooting Byzantine fire.

(Bold text added for emphasis; paragraphs added to make it easier to read.)

Note the bold section: the best soldiers were monks who learned sword arts and archery techniques and kept safe the monasteries in the mountains. Their techniques and weaponry were different than what the rest of the military used. Compare this to the descriptions in the MDTJ, where the Chinese, Japanese, and old-style (Korean monasteries?) swords are compared and shown to differ.

This is the oldest written record I have found of sword arts in Korea....I wish it gave more detail. Still, the article and descriptions of life in Old Korea are very interesting.







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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:42 pm 
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Thanks Ann!



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:12 pm 
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Henny's an interesting fellow. I met him once through Andrew Pratt long, long ago when Korea didn't feel like home.

He has written a book about this tale and it should be available from the usual online sources. I'd give you the ISBN but Lorne has my copy at the moment...



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:16 am 
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The date between 1653 and 1666, judging from Henry's record, that was after Imjin Waeran 1596 ( Invasion by Japan ) and also another war of invasion by the Manchu ( Nurhaci from Manchuria ) that toppled the Ming Dynasty in 1630-1644.

So probably from his record , the military condition at that time was already adjusted to the prevailing condition at that time. The Korean government had to be prepared all the time including military service for all able body male. They won't allow got caught unprepared the 3rd time without being militarily prepared.
Plus they harnessed the monks as well to protect their country, especially the during the previous Imjim war the monks were the most readiest force at that time to counter the Japanese invasion in 1596.

The Manchu at one time forced the Korean King to aid them in the invasion of China , but the King refused and Korea got invaded as a punishment. Even after the establishment of Qing Dynasty, Qing Dynasty was still hostile to the Choson king during that period.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:07 pm 
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Anthony Boyd wrote:
I'd give you the ISBN but Lorne has my copy at the moment...

Yikes, do I still have that? I'd better give it back to you.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:35 pm 
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Does anyone have any recommendations for biographical information on the kings of the Choson Dynasty? I am looking for information which provides more insight into their personalities and the lives and times of the reigns rather than just vital stats. Anyone?

Best Wishes,

Bruce



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 Post subject: Korean history
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:58 pm 
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For anyone who can read the ancient texts (as they are very hard for even Korean professors to read) here are some books to try and find.
Sam guk sa gi
Koryosa

Also, for anyone wanting to learn more about, and see the actual books, items, clothing, swords and other assorted weapons, check out this site. It's in Korean, mind you.
www.hyangto.pe.kr
When the page comes up, just click on the picture of the 3 ancient archers to get in.
(That's a real picture taken in the 1800s) "Everything on this site is authentic"
HAIDONG!!!



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:20 pm 
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What a great website! I'll be poring over this one for a while!

Best Wishes,

Bruce



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:34 am 
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For more anecdotal evidence of the way things may have been, an English translation of the Samguk Yusa has been in print from Yonsei University Press since 1972. The ISBN is 89-7141-017-5, author's name: Illyon, translation by Ha Tae-Hung, and Grafton K. Mintz.

Unlike the Samguk Sagi, this work is not intended to stand as a history, but rather as a collection of legends, myths, stories, and anecdotes of the era and area. In some ways, this makes it much easier to read. It was written roughly 100 years after the Samguk Sagi.

In the case of both works, it helps to remember that resources like this are written following specific forms, and conform to certain rules of etiquette and tradition. Reading them is a journey...
:wink:

Remember to take online resources such as Wikipedia with a large grain of salt when using it to verify commentary about this area of history. There are very active, and very partisan groups on both sides who care less about the truth than about proving the other side wrong.

In many ways, the fanaticism of some of these online groups is helping me get a clearer sense of where the faction in martial arts that hates academics is coming from. None of the bickering and mud-slinging is getting me any closer to a smaller ego or clearer mind. I still like to research, but I am finding I have to second guess my motivations every time I pick up a new book. I find I have to ask, "Am I doing this to better understand myself, or to refute some faceless wahoo on the internet?"



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:24 am 
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Korea's Place Under the Sun by Bruce Cummings. It's readily available at almost any major bookstore. A hefty book with no fat.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:00 am 
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"...In many ways, the fanaticism of some of these online groups is helping me get a clearer sense of where the faction in martial arts that hates academics is coming from. None of the bickering and mud-slinging is getting me any closer to a smaller ego or clearer mind. I still like to research, but I am finding I have to second guess my motivations every time I pick up a new book. I find I have to ask, "Am I doing this to better understand myself, or to refute some faceless wahoo on the internet?"..."

Thanks, Anthony.

This is a huge challenge for me. Here in the States there is a rather large and vocal group who almost physically resist an intellectual or academic approach to the MA. The cry is "stop talking; get out and train" and at first glance it seems a sound proposition. However, the folks who argue for this position never get around to addressing the the glaring oversights that support the kind of bickering to which you are alluding.

Examining our martial traditions requires that people READ and INVESTIGATE and QUESTION. It often requires that we learn the language and study up on the institutions that influence martial traditions. It is not enough, for instance, to simply refer to Buddhism or Confucianism as things that molded Korean martial traditions. Nor is it enough to talk about them in general terms. Rather, we need to take such institutions and study on how the Koreans expressed and used these institutions and what role they played in society and politics to know why certain decisions were made.

I hurt for the KMA because I see the same sort of "dumbing-down" that influences much of American culture. es, it does make the KMA easier, quicker and cheaper and allows it to be more conveniently bent to commercial use. It does not, however, serve the KMA well, IMVHO. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:03 am 
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Anthony,

I need some pics of traditional dress for a senior officer, like a general, from one of the early kingdoms. I have looked on the net and haven't found much. The modern mens' hanbok is short, whereas i think the ancient one was long, and they also seemed to wear something perhaps called a dallyeong.
Have you seen anything like that?

I've been asked to sew something. If I get a few good illustrations I can make an approximation.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:31 pm 
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bradgraper wrote:
I need some pics of traditional dress for a senior officer, like a general, from one of the early kingdoms.....
I found a website with lots of pictures of old Korean pictures and artifacts here. Unfortunatley, it is all in Korean, so I can't tell what anything really is. There are several pictures/paintings, lots of written manuscripts (some with block cuts of people in uniforms), a section on pottery, stone monuments, and tons of other things that I can't download because I have an ancient dialup network and a poor connection.

Happy hunting!

If you find anything relevant to HDGD, please let us all know where it is (and what it says :oops: )



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:47 pm 
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Also, found this siteon the life of Admiral Yi. If you don't mind pictures of an an admiral instead of a general, the two pictures linked from this site are pretty clear.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:31 pm 
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Interesting stuff, thanks.
Right along the lines of what I had thought to get.



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