Plato----02/03/2003 4:51 PM----Post Number: 1


LipKicKer----01/10/2002 9:20 AM----Post Number: 1


I am new to Geom Do... I have been training for a month now, and have my yellow belt.

I am training in South Korea, and my instructor is a Korean... no one in my class even speaks English. Class is a lot of fun, but I feel a definate lack as far as explanation goes. I also struggle with pain.

My class is all middle school students... the oldest one is maybe 14 I think. I am only 26 myself, but I am ALWAYS so sore that I feel 50. My quads are my biggest problem. We did killer exercises the other day, and I ended up so sore that I could not attend class tonight. In fact, I ended up so sore that I threw up by the time I made it home. I was hoping that I could just continue to work through it, but everyday that I lose is a day that I get sore. I am scared that I am going to have to retire completely one day soon... I don't know that I can give it all up... it is such a part of who I am... I just need to make the pain stop... lol.

Geom Do is great... I am really enjoying it, and I am loving being a beginner belt once again... it is fun to hide at the back of class for a change!

^_^

Upperclassman Brian----01/10/2002 11:49 AM----Post Number: 2


Wow, I would love to see what your classes are like if they are making you throw up. Actually, I would love to participate in them!

Pain is weakness leaving the body. Stick with it. It was always the Zen training from my instructor that you should look ahead but for one more step. This means, while in class, don't wonder if you can make it for the hour or whatever it lasts, just try to do one more cut. Likely, don't focus whether you can make it for months or years, but just try to make it through one day at a time.

Hope you can stick with it and that you get less sore soon!

Anthony_Boyd----01/10/2002 5:02 PM----Post Number: 3


For those of you with a background in fitness and physical education, are there real ways to tell the difference between the pain which is borne of fatique and the pain which is borne of overuse and will blossom into injury?

CandleKilla----01/10/2002 5:19 PM----Post Number: 4


yeah...I had some experience of puking for a while. Try not to eat anything at least 2 hours before the exercise

what kind of pain do you get? muscle or joint?

LipKicKer----01/10/2002 6:26 PM----Post Number: 5


I am really lucky... I get all sorts of pain. I have problems with my shoulders and my knees from previous dislocation injuries, as well as one foot. But, I also get muscle pain... that was this post... my quads keep ripping. I can only walk... can't go up or down stairs, can't sit down, squat down (Korea as squat down toilets... they are an adventure)... It just seems as though I am never going to be fit again... that I am always gonna be sore.

^_^<p>
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Upperclassman Brian----02/10/2002 12:09 AM----Post Number: 6


Heh, that's a pretty good question Anthony. I guess myself having a sports background, there was always "good pain" and "bad pain." The good kind you kick yourself the next day for not having. The bad kind, you lay off for while. It's always been intuitive, but who knows. Maybe there are some real guidelines. Is there a physiologist in the house?

Pat----02/10/2002 9:33 AM----Post Number: 7


I made the wrong decision when I first hurt my knee and kept doing Gumdo and didn't see any doctors. When I finally did see doctors they all told me to stop and let my knees heal but I had belt tests and the competition so I wouldn't stop. I have finally taken time off and my knees (both knees are now injured because the good one had to take the stress of supporting the injured one) are finally starting to heal but very slowly and I notice a dramatic increase in pain if I miss my antiinflammatories for one day or I miss a week of physio.

So my suggestion is to see an orthopaedic surgeon, get accupuncture, get sports massage, get physio, take the medication and take a break before you do some really serious damage and have to take a long time off.

Aaron----02/10/2002 10:09 AM----Post Number: 8


I think I agree with CandleKilla that the puking may be dietary related. I never quite reached a puking state, I have felt a little queasy. I don't like exercize when I haven't eaten so I try to eat something a few hours before exercize, but what you eat I think is equally important. Perhaps review your diet? The diet the day before also effects your energy on the day of, so keep that in mind, too. As to the muscle tearing, that sounds bad. To some extent, all progress in muscle development is due to tiny tears that heal themselves and in the progress grown larger/stronger. A large tear is a serious injury. If you really feel it is torn I would see a doctor and not aggrevate it. If it is just severe muscle soreness, try to build up the muscle slowly. For relieving muscle soreness, light exercise of the affected muscle can often times help reduce the pain (get the muscles to re-absorb the lactic acid built up in their area), as well as speed up building the muscle. I think the expression is, "a hair of the dog that bit you". Sports creams or oils can help, stretching, and massage as well. I would be very careful because if an injury is serious, and you go a long time without treating it, it becomes a lot harder to fix... Best of luck on this.

sexychica1218----02/10/2002 10:29 AM----Post Number: 9

Knee injuries can become problematic and sometimes require surgery if the
ACL or NCL are torn or damaged. In the "Horse Stance" (Kima-se) position
students too often count while moving the legs (and forget about squating.
This can often cause overstress on joints. Rememberint the "One fist Rule"
for the distance between the knees and positiong with the floor has shown to
alleviate added pain in several of my students who have otherwise had severe
pain from knee injuries suffered in other sports.

Also being careful to protect the Planters facia tendon accross the foot is
important in relation to proper "Low Stance" (Sodo-se). Keeping feet solid
to the ground in Taekwondo is not the rule in HDGD.

For what it's worth.

Kyowon



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Plato----17/10/2002 11:32 AM----Post Number: 10

Dear lipkicker,

I really appreciated reading your message and all the replies that followed. We can all sympathesize with you about the issue of pain and injuries. Anyone who has been in the martial arts long enough gets one.
Having had a back injury that made it difficult to walk or sit down off an on for three years, I feel like I also have experience that I have learned from. My advice is this: strength and conditioning comes in little steps, through a long and gruelling process of building up. It does not come in leaps and bounds. Of course, all of this is relative to body type, but the principle is sound. The only thing that I have noticed comes in leaps and bounds are tears, fractures, etc.
Consistent, gradually tougher training, AT NO MORE THAN 90% maximum intensity, is my strong recommendation, to avoid debilitating injury. Although it is a tendency in the martial arts, try to avoid going over that 90% intensity mark .. I mean if you are approaching complete exhaustion, slow down. Continue to exercise, but don't push over the edge.
Regarding PHYSIOLOGY, I do know that with exaustion comes natural tranquilizers, which block pain signals, and we don't even know we are injuring ourselves. Also comes mental fatigue, which makes us even more sloppy, and next thing you know you have a torn ACL or a pinched nerve.
Don't be afraid to step out. I have done it, and it's nothing to be ashamed about. In fact, it shows that your restraint is greater than your drive, which is a core martial arts lesson.

Plato----17/10/2002 11:37 AM----Post Number: 11

Just another note regarding Tony's inquiry about good and bad pain.

1) there is a very fine line between maximum performance and injury
2) how do you know when you're crossing this line? In my experience, often times I didn't! I guess I only knew from getting injured. Then I knew my limits, and could gage it appropriately. But I think deep down, everybody really knows.

Ron----27/10/2002 1:55 PM----Post Number: 12


Good luck on your training, LipKicKer. Sounds like you've received some pretty good advice. I remember when I started training in kumdo. I always went up and down the stairs, rather that take the elevator, when I started. There were some days that I had to lean on the rail going home from class I was so sore. I was also working out 2x a day in the beginning (morning and night) and I sometimes had to use the rail in the evenings. Good news is I got over it. (Ah, the things we do to nurture our pride.)

I don't like doctors, nothing personal but I find that I'm not sick until I visit them, so I'd never suggest that anyone else go either. But it may qualm your fear about knee pain. Fencing (Eastern and Western) plays hell with knees in the beginning but the majority of people who stick with it find their pain going away (due to strengthening the tendons and musculature surrounding the knee joint). If nothing is broken there probably isn't a real problem. I've always had weak knees (There have been times when they throbbed for days and locked out on their own if I didn't pay attention to how I walked.) but I found that kumdo training helped them immensely. Of course, I'm not a doctor. Just passing along my experience and what's been related to me.

Todd----07/11/2002 11:25 AM----Post Number: 13


Yours is an interesting phenomenon, specifically the emesis factor. Most likely, as others have mentioned, it may be dietary- however, I don't eat before training because the belt constricts my stomach too much. If I do eat, it is a nominal amount
and done so for energy purposes.
We are all different animals physiologically, so that is a point to keep in mind when, and especially when keeping up with middle and high school students- their tendons, ligaments and muscles, etc, can take a lot more abuse than ours can at this point.
I worked out primarily with students at those ages too (I am age 33), but I have to say that they go too fast for me; within that, while I am training, I focus on performing my cuts as well as I can without rushing through it. A lot of kids, but not all, are wont to get it over with as soon as possible, competing with their peers. If you are trying to keep up with these younger kids, you may either get faster or more sore, depending on your own body and exercise history.
Another factor may be a factor such as you are trying to honor you instructor by doing everything that everyone else is doing and doing it as well as possible, a normal new-to-the-group reaction, but one which may stem from an overextended perception of percieved acceptance or failure within a different cultural context, which in turn may cause you some anxiety, nervousness, etc, and it is this which manifests itself physically (emiting). Keep plugging away, and good luck. Todd.